david wrote @ September 28, 2008 at 3:59 pm

O.K, It looks like I’m first. To me the danger in seeing salvation as only something eternal is that we miss out on blessings and experiences on this earth because we figure we ” have it “, salvation that is, and we are just waiting to die to begin to experience it. Some people could even take this to mean that they can act anyway they want because they have their ” fire insurance “.

As far as the danger of viewing salvation as fully temporal my best guess would be that one would end up like the way Bell described himself when he just wanted to escape on the Sunday morning.

  Bill Chick wrote @ September 28, 2008 at 9:41 pm

Salvation as temporal versus eternal. Is this just another way of addressing the seeming contradiction between Paul and James?

“But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe–and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” James 2:18-26 (NKJV)

8 “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Eph 2:8-9 (NKJV)

We might equate temporal salvation with James’ point and eternal salvation with Paul’s. Yet scripture addresses both. What it really comes down to is this question: is eternal salvation any good if there is not temporal application to it? Or for that matter is temporal salvation any good if it is a means to salvation in itself?

In reality one cannot exist without the other, if we are to balance what Paul is teaching about salvation being “by grace through faith” with “so faith without works is dead.” Then salvation must actually include both. Using Bell’s terms, salvation must include both temporal and eternal salvation.

The danger (and this would be an answer to the questions) is that if you think you have eternal salvation but there is no evidence of temporal salvation, then you have no salvation at all. On the same token, if your life shows evidence of temporal salvation but you have no faith or eternal salvation, then once again, you have no salvation at all.

The only true salvation is one that starts with the eternal salvation (by grace through faith) and is evidenced by temporal salvation (works). We are not saved by one OR the other, we are saved by grace unto good works. Which is the remainder of the context of Eph. 2 –
“10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Eph 2:10 (NKJV)

“by works faith was made perfect?” James 2:22 (NKJV)

One cannot exist without the other.

  Jack wrote @ September 29, 2008 at 2:21 pm

It must be Monday because my head is spinning right now trying to think about the questions and everyone’s inputs!

Eternal. I like the fire insurance analogy, we don’t live in the now, we just wait for that day that we come and see the maker. Salvation then does not become our “way of life,” how we approach every aspect and decision in our lives……now.

Temporal. It becomes all about me. “It is finished”, Christ died on the cross and I am now forgiven. It is as Bell states, it is a legal transaction, “nothing more to be offered, nothing more to be sacrificed.” And when we only think about it in this sense we loose the fact that it continues, it is an ongoing process. I liked what Bell says that it is bigger than just forgiveness it is about restoration.

When you think of it as only eternal or temporal you loose sight of the whole. Salvation is about becoming the person God created me to be into all eternity. We need to think of salvation now and the on going work from the beginning into………..forever, bringing all things under Christ.

  Jana wrote @ October 1, 2008 at 2:18 pm

Eternal… I think there’s two problems that can arise with this, and they are opposing scenarious. On the on hand, you could take the notion that you’re going to heaven regardless and be less concerned with your actions between now and then. On the other hand, you could be so eternally focused that you view it as a goal or prize….”How many treasures can I store up in heaven?” Both scenarios focus a lot on “me.”
If you are only living out temporal salvation, I think you run the risk of being potentially overwhelmed with being the “perfect” christian. I think you focus too much on the here and now, the rules and regulations, and also other peoples opinions of your christian walk. I think that this type of living forces too much legalism into your life, and you will lose sight of the “relationship” part of your christian walk.
It’s like Bell said…Our desire should be a relationship with Christ which will bring complete healing to our lives and drive us to the ultimate goal which is our life in heaven with him.